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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This was originaly a reply in another thread, but I figure it would make for a good discussion.

I love it when the Scion VP or whoever at the Chicago Auto Show said that "Scion builds its cars for their customers, and the Scion listens to what owners want..."

Then why do the cars look the way they do?
The new Scions look like that because they listened to their customers - too much unfortunately. It all began with the tC, the best selling car in the Scion lineup. By integrating all the latest trends/fads, Scion was able to make as much money as possible by pleasing the most people as possible (and by being super cheap). This is now the $$$ making/youth-market blueprint for Scion.

Ironically, this was NOT how the xA and xB1 started. Asking customers what they want is not always a bad idea, but it will never result in a revolutionary, iconic car like the xB1. Did Toyota ask young American car owners if they wanted a car shaped like a box? A car with just 108hp? If they did, the bB never would have become the xB in the US. Any dude on the street thinks they can design cars, but the truth is, most people only know what they want AFTER they see it. We all shouls leave it up to REAL designers. I'll admit it, I never could have imagined up an box on wheels (I probably woulda thought the concept was horrible), but good design proved me wrong.

Another problem I have with Scion is that their marketing basically says "the more unique the better," but is that really true? The xB1 is such a great car, NOT because it is unque, but because of quality design! Quality design is when you can't separate the form from the funtion - like the xB1. Quality design for a great value is what I thought would be the hallmark of Scion, but the Next Gen Scion has proved my hopes wrong. I should have known better since the xA and xB are not true Scions, they are just great little Toyotas that used to be called bB and ist.

So what does the New Scion mean to me afer this long rant? Well, they are still decent cars for great values although a bit ugly in my humble opinion. It's just that I will never expect Scion to develop anything as awesome as the xB1.
 

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the xB2

Well what i think they did, is take the new bB and americanzied in a bad way. To me the interior is horrid compared to my bB. The also made the overall look a bit more bland. They should have taken the bB and brought it. The new bB is all of the place here in Japan.
 

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06.5 TCM
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Safety regulations is one of the reasons they dropped xB. No way to have side air bags and recent independent crush tests didnt show much good for the box. Here in US the roads are populated with Suburbans and I hope I never meet one. In Japan xB have done fine as did many other cool looking urban cars they will never bring here, Nissan Cube to name one. Lets face it, Toyota/Scion want to appeal to a much broader customer base than xB did. We love our small square box, but not too many people do. Styling preferances need to be taken into account and new xB(I hate to call it that) is more generic and pleasing to a regular customer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I understand needing to stay competitve by focusing on safety and adding Americanized proportions, but they still did a disgrace to the originall xB. IMO, the xD would have been a perfectly safe, sized and powered platform for the xB2. We would then still have a great City Car similar in size and utility as the xB1. I would actually consider the xD - I just wish it were more boxy (space efficient) and less trendy looking.

All that aside, I think the xB2 will be a great seller and fill many peoples' needs, but I really have a problem with the exterior design. I still believe they could have developed something better, something that makes a bigger visual statement. I thought they prided themselves on the polarizing effect of the xB1's anti-style, yet they are now aiming for the bland middleground with over-style. I mean, it's great that they are the only car company taking chances with relatively extreme designs, but I don't think they are as unique and risk-taking as they claim to be.

I know taste is subjective, but you have to admit: the xB2 seems to be trying a bit too hard. The xB1 was like an all-business bulldog who doesn't give a F, but now the xB2 is like a night-clubbing Guido showing off his chest hair and gold chains.

Not to sound like a snooty design guy, but even if I don't like a car's exterior, I can appreciate the theme, the objective, the reasoning behind certain lines and curves. But with the new xB2, I can see right through to all its flaws: You can see it in how the t2B concept (which I loved by the way) was totally bastardized.




You can see how the CALTY designed t2B was a bit more faithful to the xB1 with a similar short snout, windshield angle and minimal fender flares. Instead we end up with a long sedan-proportioned snout, flatter mini-van like windshield and lengthened chicken-leg fender flares a la PT Cruiser. Also notice how the t2B headlights were subtly inset giving an understated menacing look. The xB2 instead goes for the overstated bug-eyed headlights that look like they are about to pop. The bulging lights seem to be one of those additions "just because it's neato." Furthermore, why did they go with the single backup light if they weren't going to go with the symmetrical exhaust to balance it out? (I know, so modders can **** it out with their own fart can)



Even the 2nd Gen bB, as ugly as many say it is, at least has clean, focused design with lines that actually make sense rather than the Frankenstein behemoth that we get. It is obvious the xB2 had too many chefs in the kitchen.



I can't be mad at Scion for trying too hard, I'm just a little dissapointed. Sorry for ranting off the top of my head again. I probably dont make any sense and have contradicted myself a few times, but thats what the internet is for, right! Haha, anyways...I'll probably have a different opinion tomorrow :p
 

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I am Sofa King We Todd Ed
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For all purposes, as stankubrick said, the xB and xA are rebadged US marketed bB and ist respectively. I think it was an excellent idea for Toyota to start up the Scion brand with these 2 vehicles. They took 2 of the many uniquely styled vehicles which they figured would sell pretty well here, as opposed to some of the cars they have on their roads. It would have been nice if they had kept with the spirit and released the newer models from Japan, and then added the Scion models to have a total of 5 models.. However, that isn't the case, as Scion's vision is moreso for the US market. They hooked some of us in with the xA/xB, and unfortunately, didn't deliver to their already paid consumer with an update. Maybe that'll come in the next transition? Who knows?

Anyways, back to one of the points I will make on this never-ending subject. Since the tC is designed specifically for the US market, it obviously has features the standard US buyer wants: Large motor, convenient and nicely sized cargo area, a sports coupe, factory alloys, etc. I knew the tC was the dawn of a new era in itself because it wasn't a Japanese vehicle turned US. Since the 05 debut the tC has been the high seller for Scion in my opinion, as everyone and their grandmother has one. So if you were in the corporate office, and you polled recent Scion owners, what do you think were the selling points? Probably at least 2 of the 4 I listed above. What made them choose the tC over the xA/xB? Many US buyers aren't looking for unique, they're looking for what looks cool, will make them look cool, and what fits the standard norm. No-one in the US, since the mid 90's has wanted to go outside US market box. It's SUV or sports coupe, and it has been for a looooooong time unfortunately.

I don't like the new xB because it's called an xB. It's going to sell because people are gonna think they're getting a boxy car, which, in a few aspects, yes they are. On the other hand, they're getting all the benefits of a sports coupe meets suv with the larger motor and beefy suspension in the roominess of an xB. From what people say, it's not much larger than the xB1, so it's just a stronger xB in their eyes.

I dunno when I went from valid point to rambling.......I don't feel like re-reading, and since there's no edit, feel free to hit me hard if you want guys. I can't think of much more to say currently, as I need a bit more time to develop a bit more on the new models.
 

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I am Sofa King We Todd Ed
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Stan, I could totally rock the new bB. It had to grow on me, just like the xB had to. After looking at it from all angles, you can still see the same boxy style in it, with a few updates in some areas. Many people don't like the rear fender areas, but that's for serious camber, and we all know how they do it over in Japan, slammed with -1k camber. I think it too, still comes equipped with a dinky motor, as it's still a city car, not a wannabe off-road suburban cruiser.

I would have loved the t2B straight from concept to production. My biggest problem with them basically doing that, is the whole interior. I was sold on the interior of the t2B. It was different, crazy in some places, but all in all, it would still function well as a vehicle with some luxurious amenities. I also feel that the t2B also had a bit more rigid exterior than the production xB2. I know their exteriors are basically the same, but I just feel it was that way.
 

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Wanna know what I think? Really? OK. Check the two most recent posts in my blog - I can edit over there. :D

http://tijil.org/blog/ <===

The newgen xB will do well, it is very sharply targeted at Scion's desired customers. The folks who by this new tC station wagon will be getting a lot of value for their money. It's a well built, Toyota quality, and fashionably designed - aimed right at the GEN Y market.

Enough. Read my blog - or not.

The original xB is gone, replacing it is an impostor using the same name - think of it as identity theft. I'm too damned tired to fight. All I can hope is that when I need a replacement for my box, that there will be a suitable vehicle out there. If I'm lucky, it will be made by Toyota.
 

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I'm in the market for an xB and after reading previews of the new model...well, I rushed to the dealership to make sure I could secure a 1st gen. before it went away. The new one is too rounded, too Chevy HHR for me. I also want the good gas mileage of the old model. 100 HP is plenty enough for me; I was actually surprised at how much zip this car has. Oh, and I don't trust Toyota not to jack up the price on the new model either.

Luckily I found an 06 xB, manual transmission, with the series release 4.0 package. Hopefully I'll pick it up later this week. Yay!
 

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I will always love my B more then the new one. In fact I hated the new one. I took a long hard look at it and then I started to think about some tweaks here and there. It's not bad and it has grown on me but it's not the xB2. The bB in Japan is more of the xB2 then the one we got here in the states. It kinda reminds me of a smaller 06-07 rav 4 for some reason. Anyhow, I'm glad to see a company take enough initiative to actually try to redesign a proven platform. I don't think they fail but they should have definately labelled it something other then the xB2. . . mainly due to the fact that many of us just simply won't acknowledge it. . .lol
 

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I like the larger size. and alot of people asked for that. I however wanted it to stay xb ish with the boxiness, that they somewhat kept, but the hood and bumper look like a car. I sat down and compared the t2b with the new xb and the difference that stands out more than any is the hood. I seems to be around 6 inches longer than the original.
 

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It may seem simple, but the biggest detractor for me is the name. If I could look at it as any other car, I might complain about how the grille could use some orthodontia, but because it carries the moniker of 'xB', i just shake my head.
 

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I agree with BoomBox, I love my xb, don't like the new xb (and they shouldn't even call it an xb), but the new bB has grown on me, I could see myself in one of those if that was the new xb. Well, my xb is new (06.5), less than 1000 miles on it so I don't have to worry about it for now. I only hope that toyota will come back to their senses when phase 3 comes around or that someone else has something out there i really like.
 
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