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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think I may have found the light, I am talkin 6-speed baby!!! Im going to try this conversion on my box hopefully mid Feb. I was wondering seeing as Its gonna be my box and if it works who else would want one? Im thinking I can do this conversion to your box for $1800-2000. I will use my box as the lil piggy who goes first. Oh yea the 6spd gear box also has something that I know everyone wants and loves, its a lil thing called LSD!!! So your looking at the max $2000 for a 6spd lsd with some top of the line oil in that baby, what do you think? honestly no BS I need some honest thoughts from all of you!! If you are interested Im a socal local so looks like your box will need to spend some time in the 626 or 909(LA or San Bernardino area) for a few days if it works out and Im able to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yea I know who ur talkin about. The reason Im gonna be doing this is I think I might have a connection for the trans, they are really rare from what I have seen. So why not. I used to have a performance shop so why not do some side work agian. So what does everyone think of the price for this?
 

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I may be interested.

On my 5 speed, I'm turning 4k rpm at 80 mph. I could use a lower rpm at that speed. If oin fact I was doing 80 all of the time. But that's just to stay w/ the flow on I-5!
 

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Okay guys my Z06's 6-speed isn't really needed.

All that extra gear does is act as a second/double overdrive.

Meaning that you will get about 3 mpg more when going 65+ mph over using 5th gear.

The Scion xB isn't going to be able to freakin' move if you put it in 6th gear. It would be like running it in 5th at 25mph.

All you would get is better gas mileage at very high speeds.

You could put the cash to MUCH better use elsewear, uber lightweight mag wheels, carbon fiber panels. Those would be as effective as far as gas mileage goes but they would make you actually go faster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Genesis, actually you are wrong, the 6th gear would drop your rpms anywhere from 500-750, meaning that instead of being at 4000rpm @80mph you would be anywhere from 3250-3500rpm at 80. so im sure that the xb would still have some really good power to move on up in speed.
 

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I am Sofa King We Todd Ed
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If the gear ratios are done correctly, things would be bangin'. Basically, keep the ratio for the stock box, just add in a 6th gear that's dedicated highway......Say to push it to around 2500-3000 rpms?
 

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What are the ratios for the gears in the 6 speed? I think the LSD is more interesting than the 6 speed but why not have both.

Here's the stock ratios from the 06 xB spec sheet
1st 3.545
2nd 1.904
3rd 1.310
4th 0.969
5th 0.815
Rev 3.250
Differential 4.312
 

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Without knowing the gear ratios for the 6-speed, I would honestly say I agree with Genesis. One of the things that makes the manual xB fun is the gearing, but that gearing is also what causes us to rev 4000rpm @ 80mph. Adding a 6th gear to the same ratios could be interesting. Spreading the ratios, as many 6-speeds do, may take away from the fun factor of the manual xB.
I have a 6-speed (Double Overdrive) in the Camaro and it hardly gets used. It is only there if I feel like REALLY speeding, 120-130-140+. Otherwise, it is only used for cruising the freeway, and even then, I'm doing 80+ before I'd even consider using 6th gear.
 

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If the gear ratios are done correctly, things would be bangin'. Basically, keep the ratio for the stock box, just add in a 6th gear that's dedicated highway......Say to push it to around 2500-3000 rpms?
That's what most 6-speeds are except that 5th and 6th are both dedicated to the highway. Both 5th and 6th are overdrive gears.

They are usually used only on high horsepower cars because the xB can't really push itself that well (lack of torque) at those speeds.

My xB can't sustain speed in 4th (A4) going slightly (and I mean slightly) uphill at 75 mph (I-40 freeway in New Mexico), we had to go into 3rd to maintain speed. The same thing would apply I assume if you have it in 5th for the manual.

The 6th gear would drop it WAY below the cars torque band of around 4200 rpms. Meaning that the force of wind alone would probably slam the car into having to shift down at the slightest incline.

The 6th gear allows you to use significantly better gear ratios than the A4 with the addition of the two gears.

Hence a 6-speed gets better fuel economy with 3.42 gear ratios on a close ratio transmission as the 3.20's in a wide ratio car A4 (at least with the cars I work with).


My personal example
My 3.42 M6 Z06 got 30 mpg going 80 mph on the same road that my 3.20 A4 C5 was only getting 26..

While on the same road/speed my 3.23 Camaro only recieved 24 mpg.

This is all on sustained 75 mph - 80 mph driving with absolutely no braking or accelerating (for 100 miles at least without stopping). Any braking/accelerating at all and (the C5 A4 especially) gas consumption dropped back to 24-26; the Camaro's dropped to 20-22.

Of course the 6th gear allowed the Z06 to get better fuel economy with a bigger cam, lower gears, and 50 ft/lbs of torque and 55 hp more over the C5.

I don't think my Scion can drive uphill at 65-80 mph at 1800-2100 rpms.

Now you could get pretty radical with gears though and stick 4.56's in there....
 

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You can't compare U.S. V8 6 speeds to typical JDM ones. On vettes and other V8's the 6th gear is just there for cruising to meet EPA requirements. Most Japanese 4 cyl transmissions (acura type R for example) usually have all the gears spaced usefully for performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
C160
1st- 3.166
2nd- 2.050
3rd-1.481
4th-1.166
5th -0.916
6th -0.725
Reverse-3.250
Final Drive-4.529

ok we would go, from 4000 at 80, to 3600 at 80. its a few rpm but hey its still a 6-speed and its still LSD. Looks like Im gonna convert mine, but no one else is really interested. its all good in the hood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Read on Let me edit this and take a moment to explain, Genesis, this is not really comparable to camaros or vettes, these boxes are just a little different then the american v8 cars. Theres a big difference between the A4 cars and the M5 or M6 cars. Im sorry for being an a**hole and UV said it right and I concede to UV for being right. A car is a car no matter what it is. I just dont agree that theres any comparison from a 6spd from a vette(camaro) to a 6spd from a Levin ae111 bzr, or really from any other import. thats just my opinion
 

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You can't compare U.S. V8 6 speeds to typical JDM ones. On vettes and other V8's the 6th gear is just there for cruising to meet EPA requirements. Most Japanese 4 cyl transmissions (acura type R for example) usually have all the gears spaced usefully for performance.
CAGS is there for EPA requirements (forced 1-4 gear change at lower speeds) not the extra gear. Hence the Cobra/Evo only has 5 gears (2001 minus Cobra and MR minus Evo).

Import/Domestic transmission aren't two totally different worlds. CVT and sequential transmissions are two total different worlds.

They have enough power to handle that low of a RPM. It doesn't matter what size engine you have, it just has to have enough torque to maintain speed at whatever RPM you are at.

Even most 4 piston engines have considerable more torque than the xB.



xB
105 ft/lbs @ 4200 RPM

Evo
286 ft/lbs @ 3500 RPM <- more than double the torque with both the M5 and M6
M5 (M6 on the MR edition)

I4 Eclipse
158ft/lbs @ 4000 RPM
V6 Eclipse
205 ft/lbs @ 4000 RPM
5 speed

Cobolt (NA)
155 ft/lbs @ 4000 RPM
5 speed

All of those have at least 50% more torque at, at least, 200 RPM lower.

Also all of those are significantly more aerodynamic.





*A 4 piston engine doesn't get better mileage if it uses a turbo (or whatever) to hit V8/V6 power, at that point it uses just as much fuel.

Another note I would have put the Celica up there but damn it has crap for torque, its best motor only puts out 130 ft/lbs @ 6800 rpm. I haven't even owned a car that can go over 6500 RPM without hitting the rev govenor/limiter.

Others

2007 Eclipse V6 6-speed
260 ft/lb @ 4500 RPM <-more than double the peak torque with the 6-speed
2007 Eclipse I4 5-speed
162 ft/lb at 4000 RPM

2007 MX-5 6-speed
140 ft/lb @ 5000 RPM

^that is the closest to a xB you can get that has a 6-speed.

You would need something like 140 ft/lb to make it useable worthy and you could lower the gears to something like the MX-5's and make it performance oriented.

When drag racing or road racing you never really get past 4th gear, if you do than your gear ratio is to small.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
BoxerRebellion------You can't compare U.S. V8 6 speeds to typical JDM ones. On vettes and other V8's the 6th gear is just there for cruising to meet EPA requirements. Most Japanese 4 cyl transmissions (acura type R for example) usually have all the gears spaced usefully for performance.




HOLY SH**!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right on the money!!!!!
 
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