Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's - Scion xB Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 10-20-2017, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

Hello everyone, I'm trying to understand what I'm missing on the rear sway bar - aftermarket and the TRD.

(2) issues:

1st: The rear sway bars i've seen only attach to the rear end and not to the body/frame, so how does this help body roll? ie most rear sway bars connect the ends of the sway bar to lower spindle or close to each wheel no problem here from what I see, But the middle section of the bar is normally connected with 2 mounts and 2 poly/rubber bushings to the frame or body of the car. I've also seen rear wheel drive cars such as crown vics connect the middle section of the bar to the rear end and the ends of the sway bar to the frame of the car which if fine as well, it still solves the body roll issues by connecting the frame to the rear end. These don't connect the frame and rear end at all from what I can tell, so how does this help body roll?

2nd: Seeing that the rear end is one piece and not independent leeds me to believe that the rear end has Horrible flexing problem, in which the sway bar is compensating for. Or there is a massive placebo effect for many driver's who all seem claim that most of the body roll is fixed with the sway bar mounted in this fashion. So is there some major flex issues with the xb's rear end that should be addressed?

Can anyone clear this up and shed some light. The body roll is killing me and I don't have that kind of extra cash to waste on a placebo. Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 10 Old 10-23-2017, 01:43 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

I wouldn't call it placebo at all. I could tell a noticeable difference in handling after installing one. It allows for much faster and tighter turning. Definitely works best with other mods, like lowering and a front strut bar, but would likely make a big difference on it's own. I'm very happy with my Progress rear bar.

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post #3 of 10 Old 10-23-2017, 01:56 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

/\/\... Agree on the handling with the rear sway bar !! Less body roll and with adding the front sway bar and new steering bushing made the big difference in handling !! I too am happy with mine and would not take them off !!!
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-01-2018, 05:18 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

Yup, it stiffens up the rear beam axle, less flexing in the rear, less body roll...with the factory front sway bar and the TRD rear, the back of the car should rotate much between in the corners and eliminate the understeer these cars have from the factory...

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post #5 of 10 Old 11-30-2018, 04:50 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

Do the sway bars help with tire alignment? May be unrelated but I was told that the rear "toe" cannot be adjusted and has to do with the fixed rear axles of these cars. I'm wondering if a sway bar can help keep the tires aligned for longer, since it tightens everything up.

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post #6 of 10 Old 12-04-2018, 01:35 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

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Originally Posted by Brazilianfernie View Post
Do the sway bars help with tire alignment? May be unrelated but I was told that the rear "toe" cannot be adjusted and has to do with the fixed rear axles of these cars. I'm wondering if a sway bar can help keep the tires aligned for longer, since it tightens everything up.
No, a sway bar will not help with tire alignment.

Now one to the real problem. I'm going to assume you are lowered and this is actually what is causing the rear to toe. As for whoever told you that it can't be adjusted they are correct and not correct. There are no factory adjustments to adjust the rear wheels for camber or toe. There are aftermarket product to deal with it though. SPC EZ-Shims are what I used to correct mine.

https://www.spcalignment.com/compone...AFrom&to=USATo

What happens to cause the rear to toe in when you lower the xB is the fact that the rear wheels are designed with about 1-1.5 degrees of camber from the factory which helps with handling. When you lower the car the rear beam moves up and forward, the forward is the problem. It causes that camber to turn into negative toe because what was the top of the wheel is now pointing forward somewhat. If you are running springs or coil overs and have a static drop then you can take the shims to a good alignment shop and they can add the shims in getting rid of the toe but keeping the camber. In my case since I'm on air and adjust the height somewhat often I went for removing the factory camber altogether so that when the wheel rotates forward it doesn't have any angle to turn into toe. If you go this route I would recommend running a rear sway bar because you will have taken out some of the stock corner handling characteristics.

If you are stock height and have toe then something is probably bent on your rear beam but the shims will still work to correct it and you can ignore almost all of what I just wrote.
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post #7 of 10 Old 12-04-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazilianfernie View Post
Do the sway bars help with tire alignment? May be unrelated but I was told that the rear "toe" cannot be adjusted and has to do with the fixed rear axles of these cars. I'm wondering if a sway bar can help keep the tires aligned for longer, since it tightens everything up.
No, a sway bar will not help with tire alignment.

Now one to the real problem. I'm going to assume you are lowered and this is actually what is causing the rear to toe. As for whoever told you that it can't be adjusted they are correct and not correct. There are no factory adjustments to adjust the rear wheels for camber or toe. There are aftermarket product to deal with it though. SPC EZ-Shims are what I used to correct mine.

https://www.spcalignment.com/compone...AFrom&to=USATo

What happens to cause the rear to toe in when you lower the xB is the fact that the rear wheels are designed with about 1-1.5 degrees of camber from the factory which helps with handling. When you lower the car the rear beam moves up and forward, the forward is the problem. It causes that camber to turn into negative toe because what was the top of the wheel is now pointing forward somewhat. If you are running springs or coil overs and have a static drop then you can take the shims to a good alignment shop and they can add the shims in getting rid of the toe but keeping the camber. In my case since I'm on air and adjust the height somewhat often I went for removing the factory camber altogether so that when the wheel rotates forward it doesn't have any angle to turn into toe. If you go this route I would recommend running a rear sway bar because you will have taken out some of the stock corner handling characteristics.

If you are stock height and have toe then something is probably bent on your rear beam but the shims will still work to correct it and you can ignore almost all of what I just wrote.
Thanks Greg for taking the time to write all of that. I’m actually riding at stock height. I just purchased a used 2015 xB in aug and it’s having terrible vibration problems at high speeds on the highway. The dealership has balanced tires, and done an alignment and it has .32 of toe in the rear passenger side. The dealership says they can’t do anything about it as it’s not adjustable. Said the suspension was fine, and to put new tires on it to fix the vibration problem. They haven’t said anything about a bent beam. And they pretty much refuse to do anything else about it. I’ve only driven the car less than 3,000 miles.
That’s why I was asking. Do some Toyota dealers shim it or would I have to find an independent shop to do it?
Thanks so much
Sorry to hijack the op’s thread

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post #8 of 10 Old 12-04-2018, 02:35 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

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Originally Posted by Brazilianfernie View Post
Thanks Greg for taking the time to write all of that. Iím actually riding at stock height. I just purchased a used 2015 xB in aug and itís having terrible vibration problems at high speeds on the highway. The dealership has balanced tires, and done an alignment and it has .32 of toe in the rear passenger side. The dealership says they canít do anything about it as itís not adjustable. Said the suspension was fine, and to put new tires on it to fix the vibration problem. They havenít said anything about a bent beam. And they pretty much refuse to do anything else about it. Iíve only driven the car less than 3,000 miles.
Thatís why I was asking. Do some Toyota dealers shim it or would I have to find an independent shop to do it?
Thanks so much
Sorry to hijack the opís thread
Find an independent shop to take care of it. The dealer techs are fine for getting things to stock but if you've got toe on one side then something if definitely wrong and I'd take bets on it being a bent beam. I'd suspect that the previous owner slid into a curb at some point. Any good alignment shop should be able to get the shims and put everything to correct specs. Or if you are mechanically inclined you can handle it yourself since you already have to alignment readings and the shims come with a chart for trimming them to fit and fix what you need.
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post #9 of 10 Old 12-06-2018, 07:45 AM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

I like the way you explained it Greg as we CAR owners buying a used vehicle would most likely never see that !!!
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post #10 of 10 Old 12-09-2018, 10:30 PM
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Re: Sway Bar Placebo effect on Xb's

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Originally Posted by GregS View Post
Find an independent shop to take care of it. The dealer techs are fine for getting things to stock but if you've got toe on one side then something if definitely wrong and I'd take bets on it being a bent beam. I'd suspect that the previous owner slid into a curb at some point. Any good alignment shop should be able to get the shims and put everything to correct specs. Or if you are mechanically inclined you can handle it yourself since you already have to alignment readings and the shims come with a chart for trimming them to fit and fix what you need.

this. my first time doing shims a month ago for the xb it was very easy. four bolts back of the drum cut and install, then go back to the dealer for free alignment check However, the spc ones I got where really fragile. if you are clumsy like me I would buy 3 just incase, one per each side and an extra one just incase you break it like I did.

---------- Post added 12-09-2018 at 10:40 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by parkxb View Post
this. my first time doing shims a month ago for the xb it was very easy. four bolts back of the drum cut and install, then go back to the dealer for free alignment check However, the spc ones I got where really fragile. if you are clumsy like me I would buy 3 just incase, one per each side and an extra one just incase you break it like I did.
Edit. i didnt realize you only needed 1 side fixed oops, but on a side not that won't cause the vibration. I had my xb off .50 toe in the rear and I didn't notice anything odd, just fixed it for the hell of it and I wanted everything even including the camber. (spc shims can adjust toe and camber in 1 cut.) I agree with the dealer your tires are bad or even bent rim. I would rotate the tires and see if the vibration is any worse or better. If better the rears, previously fronts are bad, and vice versa. It is rare but possible all are bad can be combination of severe feathering, cupping, and/or separation.
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