[C4 Cory]

You can change the numbers in the boxes in the link that Best posted for me so you can see what diferent ratios do or compare 5spd to 6spd. Now that Wiki C link says that we have diferent that we think we have. Somethig I wondering is that final drive ratio might be diferent than R&P ratio(diff), as in final drive ratio could be the combination of the highest gear and R&P, IDK?

---------- Post added 11-09-2011 at 12:20 AM ----------

On the the Yaris world forum in another thread (5spd to 6spd conversion DIY) someone said the a 4 door Echo has a c150 with a final drive of 3.850. That could be a good sawp if true

[BestmpgxB]

Here's a link to a Yaris engine swap into an xA. Apparently (and unfortunately), the Yaris transmission's dogbone mounting location differs from the xA/xB dogbone mounting location enough to rule out the complete easy tranny swap. There's good information in the linked thread about the 6 speed tranny swap, & some other links.

There's a terminology difference, but I'm not sure what it is. Final drive ratio always refers to the R&P (diiff) ratio, I think. FDR*top gear ratio has its own name, although I'm not sure what it is.

[whitej47]

Originally Posted by BestmpgxB

Looks like the parts will cost $400, unless I can arrange a swap with a Yaris owner. Any Cali xBers with the mechanical skills to help me do the swap shown in Victor's link?

I'm down. If it helps, ****, I will do it to mine. I would like to grab a 6th gear tranny and see if it will fit, or at least one that can be borrowed.... That would be dope and bring my car up another level. But yeah, if you buy the tools and the parts I am willing to help. I could use a rear gear and a performance clutch swap. Two other notches to add to my bed post

[BestmpgxB]

Cool! I'm retired, so I've got the spare time & financial situation to make this happen, or at least, to be there when you or Cory do it. It's too bad you & Cory & I are scattered so far apart in Cali.

The specific 6 speed tranny sounds like it might be tough to find, and tough to install. If Toyota offered three different engine variants in the '97-'00 Corollas, I'm doubting every C160 tranny from those years will be identical, & I suspect we're going to face some interesting challenges.

What special tools would be needed?

[C4 Cory]

So in those links it saying we have the the C50, the echo has C150 some say it will sawp over some say it wont cause of the mounting? I have read a few places that a levin ae111 or ae110 6spd bolt in but you have to cut and weld the subframe witch is no problem for me as I weld everyday at work an have my own welder. I am trying to see if they made a trans that has the same 1st thru 5th ratios as ours with the 3.94 R&P that will bolt in, and that is what I will run.

---------- Post added 11-09-2011 at 11:46 AM ----------

more info on the 6spd sawp, quoted from a member on siconlife

"for those who is interested in a 6spd into your box....


-Buy a C160 trans off a Corolla AE111 or AE101 ... you can find these dirt cheap because people only buy these clip for the black top 20valves ( 20valve 4A_GE) and basically the trannies sit out in the dirt lot or in the shelves collection dust. I bought mine for a $100 bucks...

-Swap your C56 Bell Housing over to the C160 ... it should mate together like my C150 together because these are all C-Series trans...

-people ask about axles... your stock axles are fine just as long you upgrade to a Corolla ZZE110 chasis axles seals...

-cutting is required... this is something you cant go around...

but from what I figure... you can do this swap for less than the cost of a trd gear set... If you know the right people or do your own work.... "

[whitej47]

Is this something you are willing to try? I can buy everything and compensate you for what you think is fair...I would really like to try it. Maybe even weld me in some paddle shifters haha. Yucca is not too far for something like this, but my car would be out of commission for a bit. What do you think the turn around time would be?

[BestmpgxB]

If this happens, I'll try to be there to help/observe. Unfortunately, the C160 swap doesn't meet my goal of lowering my cruising rpm. Its 4.53 final drive ratio combined with its .725 sixth gear runs 2877 rpm @ 60 mph, only 54 rpm lower than I'm currently running with the stock tranny pushing my 17" tires.

[whitej47]

Speaking of 17", do you have any need for 2 used tires? I have a pair 215/40/17 collecting dust in my garage. I will let them go cheap

[BestmpgxB]

No, I just got my 17s six months ago. Thanks.

[C4 Cory]

If the trans was ready to be sawped in with the work done to it that needs to be, it could be done in a day the, I can do the cutting welding in 20min if it is the same amount as the Yaris. I don't like the ratios in the C160 either, even if we changed the R&P to something higher. The ratios in the C66 has the the same 2nd thru 5th as us now and the 0.725 6th but with 4.529 R&P, I could live with that if that trans or the gears from it will work, but I would like it better if it had our 4.312 R&P. I got these numbers from the wiki link the Best posted so I don't know if they are right cause it seems that some of them are wrong from what I have read in other post and websites.

[whitej47]

Hmm, I will have to research it when I get a chance. I think I could rebuild a damaged one depending on what was wrong, but I would like to buy one that is otherwise clean, just needs a good flush. I am super busy trying to do some things, so I will add it to the list...haha

[C4 Cory]

I found one on ebay for $400, search ae111 transmission

---------- Post added 11-10-2011 at 10:34 AM ----------

Oh and it looks like a 92 up paseo has the C150 with the same 1st thru 5th as us with a 3.94 R&P

[BestmpgxB]

I'm taking my wife's car in tomorrow. I'm going to ask the shop owner what he thinks about a ring & pinion swap. We have a tranny specialty shop in town, too. If my mechanic thinks highly of them, I may pay them a visit.

I've saved $1700 on fuel costs by hypermiling. Not sure if it's worth $1000 or so to do the gear swap, even if I can rationalize half the cost for a necessary clutch replacement.

[C4 Cory]

are you still wanting the 3.722s

[BestmpgxB]

Yes. It's the only available gearing that makes sense to me to avoid the infernal buzziness of our stock gearing. Top gear with the 3.722s will run 2673 rpm, v. the AT's 2545 and the stock MT's 3096.

I am concerned that I'd be pushing an 8.77 CdA with the tall gearing, while the Echo pushes 6.57, and the Yaris pushes 6.36. But since the AT xB1s do it, our MTs should be able to, also.

[BestmpgxB]

Well, my local auto mechanic's shop farms out its differential jobs to a guy 70 miles away, and he doesn't want to take on the job. The best we could do was get him to agree to research the job & call back in a day or two. I hope my query piques his interest.

There is a transmission shop in town, which my local shop hadn't heard of .

[C4 Cory]

I don't like how the 3.722s make 4th amost the same as 5th now(new 4th would be 1.5 miles slower at 3000rpm then 5th stock) it just seems like it hurt mpg by having to wind it out longer in each gear before shifting, and downshifting say you wanted to pass someone or climb a hill that you can't do in 5th now you would have to use 3rd with the new gearing witch is now in the middle of 3rd and 4th stock. I not saying that it wont work, I don't know your driving condtions (flat land or hilly) but Im afraid the gear splits are gonna be to big compared to the 3.94s or 3.85s.

here are the mph reached at 3000rpm with the different R&Ps and 24" tire

R&P 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
4.31 13.99 26.11 37.95 51.31 61 stock
3.94 15.3 28.59 41.52 56.31 66.73
3.85 15.66 29.23 42.49 57.44 68.29
3.722 16.19 30.24 43.95 59.41 70.64

---------- Post added 11-16-2011 at 04:23 PM ----------

I had it spaced like this

R&P____1st______2nd_______ 3rd______ 4th______ 5th
4.31____13.99___26.11____ 37.95____ 51.31____ 61____ stock
3.94____15.3____28.59 ____41.52 ____56.31 ____66.73
3.85____15.66____29.23____ 42.49____ 57.44____ 68.29
3.722___16.19____30.24____ 43.95____ 59.41____ 70.64

[BestmpgxB]

But this is exactly what I want, because our current 5th gear is geared so low, it's effectively a 4th gear right now. With the 3.722s, we add a real overdrive, still have our original 5th gear ratio (the new 4th gear) for climbing moderate hills, and our original 4th gear (new 3rd) for passing. Since the new gear ratios are essentially the same as the old, there's no fuel/wear penalty to pay. The only differences are that you're effectively starting in 2nd gear, and you'll cruise in comfort on highway trips.

[C4 Cory]

The new 3rd is gonna be quiet a bit lower geared than 4th is now and it wont be like staring in 2nd not near that bad, new 1st will only be 4mph faster than stock(it would have to go 12mph faster to be like taking off in 2nd), I think that this will be good for 1st cause to is so short now. The splits wont be like 4th is 5th and 3rd is 4th, its gonna be this at 3000rpm with a 24" tire

4th is 1.5 mph slower than 5th almost the same,
3rd is 6mph faster than stock 3rd and 7mph slower than stock 4th 2nd is 4mph faster than stock 2nd and 8mph slower than stock 3rd
1st is 2.7mph faster than stock 1st and 10mph slower than stock 2nd

So when you downshift to 3rd you will be at a lot higher rpm.
The gaps between gears will be bigger with the new R&P
here is difference in mph at 3000rpm with a 24" tire between gears

stock
12mph between 1st and 2nd
12mph between 2nd and 3rd
13mph between 3rd and 4th
10mph between 4th and 5th

3.722
14mph between 1st and 2nd
14mph between 2nd and 3rd
15.5mph between 3rd and 4th
11mph between 4th and 5th
numbers are rounded

it doesn't seem like to much but I think this is where we might lose mpg becaus it will take longer to get the rpm up(cause of the taller R&P) and might have to go to a higher rpm to upshift to cover the bigger gaps in the gears now. ATs can deal with this cause they use a torque converter, and I would like to ride with someone that has an AT to see how often it shifts out of over dive.

[BestmpgxB]

I rarely run to 3000 rpm. My bread and butter P&G deltas are 1300-2500 rpm in 3rd gear, 1500-2500 rpm in 4th, and 50-60 mph in 5th gear. With the 4.31 gears and OEM tires, that's 16-30 mph in 3rd, 25-41 mph in 4th, and 2600-3100 rpm in 5th.

With the 3.722 gears, 1300-2500 rpm in 2nd is 13-24 mph, 1500-2500 rpm in 3rd is 21-35 mph, and I'd be able to do the 50-60 mph pulse in the new 5th gear from 2200-2700 rpm. But if not, I'd do it in 4th from 2650-3000 rpm.

So, I'm not sure how it will work out, either.