XB2 TRD rear sway bar

TartanJack · 10-06-2008, 11:52 AM

Decent description in the link. I'll bookmark that one.
(I've tried to describe this on some xB threads on multiple forums, but can't remember if I did on this thread.)

The TRD and Hotchkis sets (the TRD "set" is the TRD rear and stock front already in the G2 Box) are both good designs and improves the original set up, giving more balance and less understeer.
However, a mixed set could be terrible, as they are not designed to go together.

Be careful of "overkill" on sways.

(I think the rear sway that balances the front should be stock on the vehicle, but for some reason it isn't.)

TrevorS · 10-29-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mntegra01

reading this thread seems useless... unless I missed someone pointing out how a SWAY bar works.

to help spread the correct information in the XB world here goes..

A sway bar is only working while cornering... when you turn the weight of the car is pushed to one side, that makes the springs compress more...

but with a sway bar there, as the spring compresses there is that same force being transmitted through the sway bar to the other side of the can that has much less weight and force on it and force the suspension downward at the smae time so instead of body roll you get more of a slight lean... depending on the thickness you get, is how well your bar performs, but dont go over kill or it could rip out your subframe. Here's a linky for a better description...

Sway Bars

Very good, though I just want to mention that the rear swaybar effects ride behavior any time the rear wheels are at different heights relative to the body. Definitely on corners, but also with bumps and dips in the road as well as driveway entrances, speedbumps, etc.

I decided to get one just on the short trip home after picking up my xB2. It only took one moderate-traffic turn from a fresh green light to convince me. The problem was cured immediately upon installation, I'm just not comfortable with significant body lean. (My Eclipse GSX spoiled me

!)

seppuku27 · 10-29-2008, 10:19 PM

Wait for the new TRD rear sway bar to come out before buying one. They are redoing the mounting bracket design. A few have broken.

TrevorS · 10-29-2008, 11:21 PM

Any information as to exactly what broke? It's apparent that at least some people fail to install the bar according to TRD instructions. I'm wondering if that has something to do with the failure

.

seppuku27 · 10-29-2008, 11:46 PM

I believe they broke were its held on to the rear shock tower. I know that damn bolt came loose on me a couple of times but that got fixed with red loctite. I know I have had mine for a year and the bolt coming loose is the only problem I have had with it. I installed mine to the directions.

TrevorS · 10-30-2008, 12:50 AM

The nut can only come loose if it is wrenched (there is a key on the fitting that locks the nut.) Ergo, it's absolutely necessary to wrench ONLY the bolt, together with keeping the nut located as per oem, on the outside (guaranteeing engagement with the key.) If your nut loosens (hence requiring the split washer you mention elsewhere), I submit you either reversed the bolt or wrenched the nut, either during bolt removal or installation.

Judging from my xB2 ride behavior and associated noises, my shock bolt/nut haven't budged since I installed the bar. However, I've seen several people (including a dealer technician) describe wrenching the nut (thereby destroying the key) and also reversing the bolt (thereby bypassing the key) for purpose of an easier install. These actions maximize the likelihood of the bolt/nut loosening. I suspect that's the only reason it ever loosens -- outside of undertorque, that is

!

PS. To be sure, I don't know, but I can't help but wonder if the sway bar "failures" have actually been due to installation issues (rather than design!) Given most people can't be bothered with reading the instructions for pretty much anything (let alone following them,) it's understandable if TRD decided to try and make their installation a little more "idiot" proof

! Just a thought!

seppuku27 · 10-30-2008, 09:50 AM

The instructions say to reverse the bolt, like I did, and I used a torque wrench on the bolt at 70lbs. I also didn't use a lock washer I used red loctite. When I installed the bolt I didnt use loctite the first time but after it came loose I made sure to on both sides.

What key are you talking about?

TrevorS · 10-30-2008, 11:15 PM

I don't know what instructions YOU are talking about, but the instructions from TRD say NOT to reverse the bolt and NOT to turn the nut -- turn the bolt instead! The nut is keyed to the fitting it tightens against (notch to ridge), this locks it in position.

Force the nut despite the key, or reverse the bolt (which naturally results in the bar trying to loosen the nut during its normal action -- it may ease installation, but it's clearly incorrect) and you lose that oem lock! Neither Loctite nor lockwasher is required if the installation is performed correctly.

PS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

I also didn't use a lock washer I used red loctite.

I didn't say you DID use a lock washer, I said you mentioned it elsewhere. Here is the quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

With my TRD sway bar it was the bolts coming loose. There is no lock washer on them so either get one or use alot of thread lock.

PPS. Bottom line is you can follow the instructions provided by TRD for a TRD accessory, or you can do something else. However, if you want to be sure of it working correctly, then exactly follow the TRD provided instructions

! By the way, you should NEVER change the oem orientation of bolts, or ignore manufacturer instructions, unless the manufacturer tells you to. Toyota/TRD didn't!

Padanky · 10-30-2008, 11:23 PM

Who sells it the cheapest? Website and price would be nice, thanks.

TrevorS · 10-30-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padanky

Who sells it the cheapest? Website and price would be nice, thanks.

I got mine from TRD sparks -- good people and the installation instructions are readily available on their site via PDF. Buy it from them and specifically follow their provided instructions (as I did.)

TRD Rear Sway Bar at Sparks Toyota-Scion, Myrtle Beach, SC

seppuku27 · 10-31-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

I don't know what instructions YOU are talking about, but the instructions from TRD say NOT to reverse the bolt and NOT to turn the nut -- turn the bolt instead!

I must be blind but the instructions I have from TRD say to....

And thats from what TRD Sparks sent me with the rear sway bar over a year ago.

TrevorS · 10-31-2008, 12:21 AM

OK, exactly where in the TRD instructions does it tell you to reverse the bolt orientation. Can't see it myself

!

PS. Here's the PDF if anyone else care's to take a look

http://www.trdsparks.com/install/PTR11-52080inst.pdf

PPS. If you choose to change the bolt orientation (or wrench the nut), enjoy the consequences

!

seppuku27 · 10-31-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

OK, exactly where in the TRD instructions does it tell you to reverse the bolt orientation. Can't see it myself

!

Take a look at the picture if you can't read.

TrevorS · 10-31-2008, 01:34 PM

Here is what TRD says in their instructions (copy and paste from p2 & p3 ):

http://www.trdsparks.com/install/PTR11-52080inst.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRD

3. Install TRD Rear Sway Bar (RSB)
(a) Remove lower shock mount bolt.
(1) Place high position jack stand under shock
mount and relieve tension from shock
absorber. (Fig. 3-1)
(2) Remove bolt by turning the bolt not the
lock nut.
NOTE: Only remove one shock bolt at a time so
that the rear beam axle is not allowed to swing
away from the vehicle causing stress on the wheel
speed sensor wires and beam axle bushings.

(b) Locate mounting tab of the RSB over the bolt
hole and reinstall the bolt and lower shock
assy. Do not torque shock bolt at this time.
(Fig. 3-2)
(c) Repeat for other side.

They do not say to reverse the bolt and the figures show the bolt returned to its original ortientation. The fact is, you installed the bolts incorrectly -- that is why you had problems.

PS. By the way, that photo in your image clearly differs frim the actual figure. It looks to me like you have some doctored "instructions" -- I definitely don't believe TRD packaged them with your bar. You copied them from somewhere else -- probably somebody's do-it-yourself guide on a forum. Too bad whoever prepared it didn't do the install correctly themselves -- all they are doing is speading bad info!

PPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

I must be blind but the instructions I have from TRD say to....

And thats from what TRD Sparks sent me with the rear sway bar over a year ago.

I don't believe what you say here for a minute. You got those "instructions" from somewhere else. Your installation problem is YOUR fault, NOT TRD's!

PPPS. If anyone's interested in further clarification regarding the lower shock bolt installation -- read my two posts on this thread page:

ScionLife View topic - TRD Rear Sway Bar Install(56K Beware)

seppuku27 · 10-31-2008, 03:07 PM

hey if you don't believe me I am not going to argue with you about were I got it. But if you look at the dates you can see mine is older than the one you have so that means they found a problem and changed it. I'll scan the whole document but then again you won't believe that either.

TrevorS · 10-31-2008, 03:37 PM

You're right -- I wouldn't believe it! That image of yours shows both a photo and a drawing with the same image identifier. No way that came from TRD like that! Plus, the drawing and photo show two different things (bolt orientation) -- again, no way TRD! I can't imagine even a garage operation being that unprofessional with their documentation.

seppuku27 · 10-31-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

You're right -- I wouldn't believe it! That image of yours shows both a photo and a drawing with the same image identifier. No way that came from TRD like that! Plus, the drawing and photo show two different things (bolt orientation) -- again, no way TRD! I can't imagine even a garage operation being that unprofessional with their documentation.

Lol and the link you posted doesnt have a drawing and pictures. Better click it again. Also if you look at figure 3-5 in the link you posted it shows the nut on the inside and bolt on the outside.

Look at the picture I posted it shows an arrow to flip the bolt around. Also read the side captions. It says fig 2-1 and fig 3-1. Not the same.

TrevorS · 10-31-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

Lol and the link you posted doesnt have a drawing and pictures. Better click it again. Also if you look at figure 3-5 in the link you posted it shows the nut on the inside and bolt on the outside.

The PDF file drawing very clearly depicts the bolt head being on the inside (Figures 3-1 and 3-2.) Figure 3-5 doesn't depict the shock absorber bolt at all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

Look at the picture I posted it shows an arrow to flip the bolt around. Also read the side captions. It says fig 2-1 and fig 3-1. Not the same.

The arrow in your drawing doesn't imply reversing the bolt -- it indicates the direction of bolt rotation for loosening. That is a very common means of communicating that information. If they want you to reverse the bolt -- they will spell it out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

It says fig 2-1 and fig 3-1. Not the same.

My error, they looked the same to me.

If you truly did receive this xB2 rear sway bar "documentation" from TRD, they clearly screwed up royally -- that installation makes no mechanical sense given the physical realities! However, I continue to find it extremely hard to believe this is not a doctored set of installation instructions -- a DIY.

seppuku27 · 10-31-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

The PDF file drawing very clearly depicts the bolt head being on the inside (Figures 3-1 and 3-2.) Figure 3-5 doesn't depict the shock absorber bolt at all!

Look closer

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

The arrow in your drawing doesn't imply reversing the bolt -- it indicates the direction of bolt rotation for loosening. That is a very common means of communicating that information. If they want you to reverse the bolt -- they will spell it out!

they did spell it out for you read the column on the right

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

My error, they looked the same to me.

If you truly did receive this xB2 rear sway bar "documentation" from TRD, they clearly screwed up royally -- that installation makes no mechanical sense given the physical realities! However, I continue to find it extremely hard to believe this is not a doctored set of installation instructions -- a DIY.

I believe I got an earlier set if you look at the dates like I said before

TrevorS · 10-31-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

Look closer

This is just a little bit ridiculous -- you are trying to use a photo provided for checking the bushing bolt orientation as a reference for a bolt that I can't even see clearly in that photo. The two images that are explicitly provided as the bolt reference are obviously correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

they did spell it out for you read the column on the right

I can't read that murky text to the right of the image, but since I think it unlikely those instructions came from TRD, it makes little difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seppuku27

I believe I got an earlier set if you look at the dates like I said before

I understand TRD has been selling Scion swaybars for several years. For an error that huge to slide through at this point is just too hard for me to comprehend. However, what matters is that the bolt be inserted in the original oem orientation -- it should never be reversed.