Convert you car to run on water for $200?

Shooter_XB · 07-09-2008, 12:09 AM

Hey Archangel, can you tell us about this local shop you're mentioning? I'd like to at least see their website, if possible.

Thanks

Thumps · 07-09-2008, 01:44 PM

It's a nice dream, but that pesky thing called reality is intruding again.

You will expend more energy in generating the electricity for the electrolysis of the water than you will get from burning the hydrogen gas produced. Real world efficiency is 50-70%, meaning you get about half the energy out in hydrogen gas that you put in as electricity.

Electrolysis of water Efficiency (Wikipedia Link)

What's generating the electricty for this car electrolysis setup? Oh yeah, gasoline.

gravebox · 07-21-2008, 02:31 AM

the best thing to do is to design your own cell. i've got designs for mine, but the require higher grade materials which makes the cost around $1,700 for me, but again thats the grade of material used. it's rather easy to put your cell on. if you need any help, PM me and i'll help you out.

ryanbailor · 07-21-2008, 05:47 PM

How are you getting 46.3 MPG? I did a K&N intake, I still have stock exhaust, and I'm around 34 MPG

PCH · 07-22-2008, 12:07 AM

Do you have to do anything to the O2 sensors when running hydrogen?

gravebox · 07-22-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

Do you have to do anything to the O2 sensors when running hydrogen?

]

no, because the only time your O2 will freak out is if you are producing MORE emissions then what your vehicle is supose to. cool thing is, running a hydrogen generator will rid the need of a cat on your exhaust BUT will require that you use a stainless exhaust pipe setup, otherwise, you'll have premature rusting of the exhaust. otherwise, emissions would be drastically less BECAUSE your injectors are having to throw in much less fuel which results in higher mileage and less emissions from less actual gasoline being used. then again, using a hydrogen generator as a "hydro-booster" setup like this, yes you produce less emissions... at a given time. you still throw out the same amount of emissions but over a much longer period of time because you are still going through that tank of gas which will ultimately have a certain amount of pollution that must be emitted based on the amount of fuel you use. in order to have one thing, you must sacrifice another, everything must have a equal reaction to every action.

G2k · 07-22-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stargift

I have one on my 2006 xb. My best mileage before installation was 46.3 average for the day. After installation my best was 50.7 average for the day.These figures are from my scangauge II. Whether it is the hho gen or me doing hypermiling to get the increase is uncertain. Anyway, I researched many generators and felt the one march-labs sells on ebay for $198.00 was the best for the price.

You lost me when you claimed 46.3 average. Maybe down hill with a tail wind.

JOheartPINK · 07-22-2008, 01:51 AM

I would love to have something like this, but does it actually work?!?! I mean u gained like 5 MPG?? and how in the world do u get such high MPG in the first place? So lost...lol

gravebox · 07-22-2008, 01:59 AM

yes it does work and actually improves alot more then 5mpg specialy when you do it right.

tilt · 07-22-2008, 07:17 AM

any hp loss from doing this? not sayin my cars fast, more like, cant afford to go any slower... lol

spuddud · 07-23-2008, 07:25 PM

Yeah, i think stargift made a typo 46.3mpg is pretty impossible in an xb. I mean a geo can do it with a 3 cylinder but not 4 banger will ever. Cause if scions could get 50 mpg wouldn't everyone own one?

One more question, with a hydrogen generator don't you need water? and water can just really go through your engine safely for too long (maybe the reason they don't put these cheap things in the cars in the first place?)

gravebox · 07-29-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spuddud

Yeah, i think stargift made a typo 46.3mpg is pretty impossible in an xb. I mean a geo can do it with a 3 cylinder but not 4 banger will ever. Cause if scions could get 50 mpg wouldn't everyone own one?

One more question, with a hydrogen generator don't you need water? and water can just really go through your engine safely for too long (maybe the reason they don't put these cheap things in the cars in the first place?)

the generator or "fuel cell" uses a highly efficient working electrolysis process the break down water into it's base molecules which is hydrogen and oxygen. when it reaches the combustion chamber, it is ignited and releases a ton of heat energy while it is forced back to a water vapor and then is pushed out the exhaust. Gasoline actually has a higher content of water then using a full hydrogen fuel based setup. the only thing you need to do is use synthetic oils *because it burns too hot for normal oil* and you need to have a full stainless steel exhaust. even an iron block/sleeve based engine will do just fine. the oil will keep the cylinder walls from rusting. stainless steel/titanium valves, valve springs and retainers may be something you want to look into aswell.

PregoRollerSkate · 07-29-2008, 03:49 PM

These will NOT work on the xB because they have a learning ECU just. This is also commonly known with jeeps. They all have a learning ECU and will adapt the fuel no matter what you do to the ecu back to the original amount.

gravebox · 07-29-2008, 09:24 PM

no it wont due to the fact that the ecu reads the amount of power being made so that it can adjust accordingly. because the new fuel would cause more power to be made, the ECU would decrease the amount of gasoline it is spraying in to counter the amount of extra power. the power gain would be lost but the economy gain would be just the same and continue to improve. believe me, it's not something i overlooked. if it comes down to it and you are wanting to use more hydrogen then gasoline and get closer to a full hydrogen setup, the use of a piggy-back or full stand alone will fix it completely but for a simple hydrobooster, there shouldn't be any problems at all with the stock setup for a good extra 20mpg before you start getting too low on gasoline and require a piggy-back to pick up on things.

gravebox · 07-29-2008, 09:50 PM

i see no real big deal about that setup... can survive temps upto 275 degrees... big deal, it's made with acrylic, mine's with polycarbonate and will survive a bullet hitting it and temps of 600+ degrees while being under pressure.

i'd also like to know how much power he's having to use with that plate setup. it's the best use of space, but not the best use of power and is inefficient for the space it uses. also, i don't see the use of a PWM module and this so called cooling system would be irrelevant being the hotter temps would result in higher production levels which means faster production. also, 2litres per minute isn't that impressive really... it's medium ranged, but not that great. i also don't see any type of safety features put into it's design, no release valves, no pressure metering... no nothing... a very simple design is what that is and nothing compared to what mine is designed to do.

TheRockBox · 07-29-2008, 10:05 PM

hey gravebox can you send me some links so i know what to look for. im really interested in this technology so if i can get some help that would be great.

gravebox · 07-29-2008, 10:20 PM

The Car That Ran On Water is a good place to start. from there you can get some good ideas but from there you'll have to go at it alone and do your own research. seems not everyone is willing to give up what they have learned so easily... i on the other hand, don't mind giving what i know away. why hide it?

again, that website is only a starting point. it's YOU who must find what REALLY works.

PregoRollerSkate · 07-29-2008, 10:41 PM

Grave box. That system only uses 20 amps which does a good job at not cooking the water. I have found it does a great job at most efficient compared to power.

Obviously it would be a item that you would then modify to fit your needs.

I am interested to see what you have made do you have pics or diagrams?

gravebox · 07-30-2008, 01:36 AM

only diagrams at the moment, the main design is just about ready for the build, the electrodes on the other hand are not decided yet but the one that will be best for the moment is a pipe within pipe setup, i'm also looking into the helix coil and developing on that. if the designer of that setup where to use heat and help expand the water molecules, his production would sky rocket.

PregoRollerSkate · 07-30-2008, 08:06 AM

Can you pm me your diagrams and information on the helix coil?