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Scion xB Lighting & Electrical There's options for Scion xB Lighting and Electrical from the factory, but honestly where's the fun in that. In this Scion xB Lighting and Electrical forum you can share ideas with eachother on what works well and looks good for Scion xB lighting.

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Old 06-28-2009, 08:11 PM   #1
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all power out!!!

ok.... this one is for the electrical gurus on here,

i moved my battery to under the passenger seat over a month ago, and have had no problems until friday evening then again this evening.

first time i was pulling into a drive way it was a mildly moderate bump and suddenly the power went out i mean EVERYTHING electrical (no power stearing, no lights no radio and no guages.) then it came right back on. i went and checked all my connections to make sure they were tight and they were.

then about an hour later i was driving down the street towards the same driveway and did not go over any bump and it did it again before i got to the driveway.

tonight i was on my way to the brother in laws and going down a newly paved road and all the sudden it went out again but then right back on.

once we got back to town i was backing into a parking spot at walmart and it happened AGAIN!!!!

the specs....
-the battery is a kinetc hc2000
-the positive wire from the batrtery to under the hood where it ties into the power supply for the vehicle is a true 4 guage wire.
-the ground to the chassie (where a bolt is holding the seat in place) is a true zero guage wire
-the ground running from the battey to the tranny is also a true 4 guage. HOWEVER i did not have a long enough piece to go the whole way so there is a point at wich there are 2 ring terminals bolted together.

the box in question is a 2004 auto.

i am sending pm's to pch and gravebox cause well they seem to be the best at this but i also will like to hear if anyone els has anything to say
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:52 PM   #2
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Re: all power out!!!

Notice that every time it died, the RPM were the lowest, so alternator's output was not enough to keep the engine running. That probably means you should look for the problem with battery's connection to the system.
Set the parking brake, block wheels if you can and put the car in drive. Turn on the headlights, AC fan and start moving all the connections you suspect. Hope you can make it die this way.

Or you can unclip plastic connector from the alternator (you don't have to disconnect the main power lead) and let the car idle just on the battery power this way. Wiggle test should pinpoint the bad connection.

Last edited by PCH : 06-28-2009 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:27 PM   #3
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Re: all power out!!!

this is what grave sent to me..... ill post it here so gfreat minds can think alike

hmm... how long is the positive cable? you could be dieing from voltage drop while at a low idle speed which can be caused if the positive cable from the battery is a bit too long. that break in the line with it being bolted together would "in theory" cause a disturbance in the feed but it wouldn't be noticeable to the ignition system of a car... that would be like... high frequincy pulse width modulation area or what have you.

take a volt meter to the end of the positive cable while the engine is running and see what the voltage is at while at a low idle speed of around 600-800rpm. if it's getting below 12v while running, there's a problem... if the voltage is too low, best thing to do is to either make sure the cable is one solid piece or upgrade to a higher gauge to drop the cable resistance ohm rate *the thinner and longer the cable is, the higher it's ohm rate which results in faster drop in voltage as voltage travels on it*.

another thing is, if the cable is longer than say around 5-6 feet, you may also be dealing with problems that are more along the lines of physics rather than car electrical systems and mechanics. as the cable gets longer, it's resistance goes higher which inturn causes the wire the be less and less efficient. the result of this is wire getting warming, as it gets warmer, it increases in resisting ohm rate due to the wire surface area expanding from the heat.

that being said, 4 gauge wire is only capable of supporting upto about 60amp of continuous current. now that being said, it could be that your wire is expanding from heat and giving an even higher resistive path ontop of having voltage drop from the cable length...




THE BIG QUESTION HERE...
after a full month, why do it now... if this all was really the issue, it would have started doing it on day one.

i would check every little connecting, twist and turn on the wires and cables you used and modified. look for any tight spaces where a piece of stamped metal has cut into the wire and causing it to short out. look for loose fuses on your lines. also know that the Kinetik battery is a very simple build and that the cells on the inside are simply wired together in paralell and may have had a loose connection from the factory *which can be fixed easily*. check everything possible, even your amplifier *if you have one* make sure no wire fibers are crossing and causing a short anywhere. also check your new main grounding point, make sure the metal is very exposed and getting loads of contact with the ground wire so that it's secure. there's going to be loads of posibilities for this to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH View Post
Notice that every time it died, the RPM were the lowest, so alternator's output was not enough to keep the engine running.
1-
the actual engine stays running no problem
2-
i have noticed that when in park with it car running it does idel kinda wacked, like the rpm's will drop pretty low and the car will shake a little.


when the rain lets up ill see it i can kill it the way you sudjested once the girlfriendg gets home mind you lol

the positive cabel is approx 8ft long, voltage at the battery is 13.8 at idel and under the hood at the inlet to the power for the car (at the end of the 8 ft) is the same 13.8

Last edited by adam_a : 06-29-2009 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:27 PM   #4
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Re: all power out!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_a View Post
the power went out i mean EVERYTHING electrical (no power stearing,
^^^
Anyway, the reason you developed this problem over time is vibration or a bad connection.
Don't worry about wire lenght, 4 Gauge has only 1/4 Ohm in 1000ft - can be disregarded for all the practical purposes when it comes to cars.
Turn the radio on and start pulling on things. Power distribution box, grounds, etc.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:37 PM   #5
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Re: all power out!!!

i just finished testing all power and charging points with the multi meter, at no point on idel dose the voltage drop bellow 13.7

with a load on it, ac running, high beams, blinkers, strobe lights, wipers, and stereo the voltage drops to 12.8 - 12.9


i have to start making dinner, when im done ill go and start pulling, essentially im looking for a loose wire that when pulled on it causes the power to go out?

if that is the case why would the power go out when im just cruizing down a non bumpy road?

ill also check the idel control sensor plug, before moving the battery it rubbed on the plug and split one of the wires , i had a friend soder a new plug on it but he may have not done a good job.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:01 PM   #6
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Re: all power out!!!

Quote:
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essentially im looking for a loose wire that when pulled on it causes the power to go out?
Basically, yes.
Weird things happen, but when the problem is eventually found, the explanation is very straight forward. Intermittient connection can heat up with time as the current flows through it and fail 'til it cools down again, for example. Corroded terminals and ground points that have factory paint on them do this all the time.
If you can't cause this problem, but it happens again later, try to note everything that works end everything that doesn't :dome light, tach, radio, shifter light, heads, tails, blower motor (at diff speeds), etc. Knowing all the correct symptoms makes finding things much easier.
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