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Old 07-26-2006, 05:30 PM   #21
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Opinions are to each his/her own. If you want to sit here and debate the whole right wing christian wacko deal vs Islam and other fascist groups, you can call me or pm me. there are people who sit there and will always try to find the truth, but we will never know.Being born and raised Christian, I don't agree at all, with what political angles they want to use religion for. To use any religion as your backdrop for war, is wrong.

As far as the "angry" president, I was talking about someone who is fed up with the BS that our government has pulled over our heads. Someone who will call out those people doing wrong in the name of the US of A. Of course, I'm not in front of you, so you can't hear or see my true voice, and opinion. I am not a republican, or democrat........I AM ME!!!!!!! A CITIZEN OF THE USA!!!!! WITH FREE SPEECH!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-26-2006, 05:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOXlover11
Opinions are to each his/her own. If you want to sit here and debate the whole right wing christian wacko deal vs Islam and other fascist groups, you can call me or pm me. there are people who sit there and will always try to find the truth, but we will never know.Being born and raised Christian, I don't agree at all, with what political angles they want to use religion for.
I have had the debate many times and it rarely leads anywhere. Islam, Christianity….its all the same to me. All of them kill in the name of their god, and nothing ever gets solved. I am of the opinion that religion is used to control the herd.

Although I must say it is nice to hear Christians speaking against the prostituting of their religious beliefs in the name of politics.

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...To use any religion as your backdrop for war, is wrong.!!!!!!!!!
I agree 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOXlover11
As far as the "angry" president, I was talking about someone who is fed up with the BS that our government has pulled over our heads. Someone who will call out those people doing wrong in the name of the US of A. Of course, I'm not in front of you, so you can't hear or see my true voice, and opinion. I am not a republican, or democrat........I AM ME!!!!!!! A CITIZEN OF THE USA!!!!! WITH FREE SPEECH!!!!!!!!!
OK….I understand what you meant now. I thought you were beating on the drum of war, but with that clarification, I digress.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:10 PM   #23
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9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB LOOK FOR VIDEO LOOSE CHANGE
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:23 PM   #24
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9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB LOOK FOR VIDEO LOOSE CHANGE

I AGREE WITH YOU DAVE !!!!
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by short bus
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB LOOK FOR VIDEO LOOSE CHANGE
exactly what i posted earlier!! look at the link i posted 2nd edition has some new snd very good info that wasn't in edition 1.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:46 PM   #26
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9/11 Inside Job

NORAD Tapes Only Intensify Implausibility Of 9/11 Official Story
"These guys are smart," statement completely inconsistent with flight instructors description of hijacker's skills

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | August 2 2006

Newly released portions of NORAD tapes from 9/11 featured in a Vanity Fair article do little to answer skeptic's questions about the impotence of U.S. air defenses on 9/11 and if anything only increase focus on the incompatibility of the official version of events with what is actually known to have taken place on that day.

It is clear that the exercises revolving around hijacked airliners scheduled for that morning created so much noise in the system that controllers could not pinpoint the positions of any of the real airliners to orchestrate any kind of intercept.

Errant 'ghost' aircraft such as 'Delta 89' and American Airlines 11 which controllers weren't aware had already crashed into the World Trade Center north tower continually confuse NORAD officials and at one point after Flight 77 has hit the Pentagon, they even intercept their own aircraft.

Several exchanges between NORAD personnel outline the confusion that the drills caused and delayed the response of air defense procedures.

08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.

8:37:56
WATSON: What?
DOOLEY: Whoa!
WATSON: What was that?
ROUNTREE: Is that real-world?
DOOLEY: Real-world hijack.
WATSON: Cool!

"When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" said mission-crew commander Major Kevin Nasypany.

The exercise of running numerous war games where planes would be mock-hijacked and crashed into high-profile targets is dismissed as a coincidence by the writer Michael Bronner, with no discussion of the astronomical improbability of the two scenarios colliding, in alliance with similar same target, same time drills which took place during the London bombings.

The tapes betray the fact that NORAD's attention to the fact that Flight 77 was heading towards Washington are virtually non-existent as they struggle to gain authorization to shoot down stray aircraft.

Despite the lies of Cheney in his subsequent TV interviews and statements given under oath to the 9/11 Commission, those shoot down orders never arrived, even after United 93 had crashed in Pennsylvania.

While NORAD struggled to comprehend what exactly was heading towards Washington, in Dick Cheney's PEOC bunker things were apparently a lot clearer. The testimony of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta is brought under more scrutiny by the NORAD tapes.

How could Cheney know exactly what was heading for Washington and give clear orders for its path to remain clear, while the very people mandated to defend the skies of America scrambled desperately to make sense of the chaos and get fighters in the positions they needed to be?

Google

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out."

And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?"

"And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, May 23, 2003.

The impotence of NORAD in only having access to four fighters to cover the entire eastern seaboard of the US contradicts the fact that 35 USAF bases alone were within range of the hijacked flights but were never called upon or given as an option.

The quick response by NORAD to the golfer Payne Stewart's off-course aircraft in 1999 is often cited as contradicting with procedure on 9/11. In addition, there were 67 occasions where fighters were scrambled to intercept errant aircraft in the 9 month period before 9/11.

Other segments of the tapes only raise more questions and do not provide any answers to long-standing mysteries.

- How did the admittedly incompetent pilot hijackers turn off the transponders of all the aircraft? A procedure, according to professionals that we have talked to, is often beyond the capability of even the most experienced commercial pilots?

- In one portion of the tapes, NORAD personnel are heard to marvel at the excellence of the hijacker's strategy.

9:23:15
ANDERSON: They're probably not squawking anything [broadcasting a beacon code] anyway. I mean, obviously these guys are in the cockpit.
NASYPANY: These guys are smart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, they knew exactly what they wanted to do.

These guys are smart? Contrast this statement with those of the flight instructors when describing the skills of the alleged hijackers.

Mohammed Atta: "His attention span was zero."

Khalid Al-Mihdhar: "We didn't kick him out, but he didn't live up to our standards."

Marwan Al-Shehhi: He was dropped because of his limited English and incompetence at the controls.

Salem Al-Hazmi: "We advised him to quit after two lessons.


Do the descriptions afforded to these men square with the chaos that their skills in evading detection brought to the NORAD control room? Or were the planes being controlled by some other means than morons who could barely get single engine Cessna's off the ground - but who apparently ran the world's most sophisticated air defense ragged for hours?

Does the panic that envelops the NORAD control room and the fear that new reports of hijacked planes will never end, coupled with speculation that anything (the White House and the Statue of Liberty are mentioned) could be a target, corroborate with the actions of President Bush's security detail?

Reports of numerous stray aircraft, bombs on planes, and truck bombs at the Pentagon fly and yet President Bush sits calmly in a Florida classroom apparently safe in the knowledge that he is not a target. Why wasn't the President hurried into the nearest underground bunker as soon as Card told him "America is under attack," unless Bush's people were confident of the exact targets beforehand, and that Bush himself wasn't one of them?

The writer of the Vanity Fair piece has taken the NORAD tapes on their own and attempted to forward them as proof that the official version of events is largely accurate, minus the proven lies about the non-authorization of shoot downs.

The problem is that the behavior of the errant planes, when overlaid with the activities of Cheney and Bush, standard intercept operating procedure (minus the intentional confusion of an untold number of blips from the NORAD drills) and the incompetent hijackers, simply does not corroborate.

Furthermore, the tape portions amount to a total of no more than 20 minutes of hand-picked cmmunications and it is admitted that the discussions of the higher brass are not recorded due to secrecy. Nothing is mentioned of the six tapes of air traffic control communications with the hijacked airliners that were deliberately destroyed by FAA managers.

The purpose of the Vanity Fair and a similar Washington Post article is to whitewash the entire affair and blame 9/11 on the incompetence of NORAD.

The NORAD tapes, far from dissolving so-called "conspiracy theories," only serve to support the weight of evidence that points directly towards a deliberate plan on September 11, 2001 to make the air defenses of the United States impotent and to enable the planes to find their targets
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Old 08-02-2006, 06:27 PM   #27
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know what else is funny? An islamic man known to have ties to al queda from within the US invested millions of dollars in US stocks just months before 9/11. Know what he invested in?... All of the major contractors for the United States department of defense. In the months following 9/11, his millions turned into near billions as the US prepared for war and upped security. Guess what the government did to stop him? They sent him home a richer man. Makes you think a little bit.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:17 AM   #28
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http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

has audio clips of the NORAD tapes.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:39 PM   #29
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What I don't get is why people are so reluctant to believe that the US gov't would be willing to kill its own citizens to support whatever rationalization they are running with today?

They've been doing it for years. They let a damn suburb be built on toxic waste (Love Canal).

They tested syphillis on black men in the earlier part of the last century and told them they were being given immunizations to help them when it was really saline and they wanted to see how syphillis worked with no treatment. Clinton apologized for this to the few survivors during his last term so it's true.

They tested DDT on the populace in the 60's (paid claims out for this too, so it's true).

Sprayed Agent Orange on our own troops in Vietnam (My uncle did 3 tours and he swears he saw them do it to a squadron w/his own eyes).

If you are a problem, or you are considered marginal, you will be eliminated if it suits the whim of whomever is pushing the buttons at that time. You're family may get a check later.
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Old 08-03-2006, 03:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by fcastle
What I don't get is why people are so reluctant to believe that the US gov't would be willing to kill its own citizens to support whatever rationalization they are running with today?.
Dont forget the plan called Operation Northwoods . It called for engaging in such unsavory activities as assassination, hijacking airplanes, blowing up ships, orchestrating violent terrorism in US cities, while pinning the blame on Fidel Castro. This would whip up necessary public support for a full-scale invasion of Cuba, which the military believed was necessary. These details are revealed in a book entitled Body of Secrets, a book about the National Security Agency, by James Bamford.

Deja vu anyone?

But back to your question, to put it simply, the masses are easily led around by their noses and most are stupid.

Sorry to be so blunt, but just because it may be offensive, that does not mean it is not true.
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:11 PM   #31
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^^ I agree with just about everthing said above. I saw with my own 2 eyes the destruction @ the WTC in the days following 9/11 and @ the pentagon. My groups 1st thoughts at the pentagon crash sight were " A huge boeing 757 made that small of a hole?" and "where are the pieces of the plane?"

Look at a crash photo of the pentagon 30 minutes after impact. There are no pieces anywhere to be found. The front lawn in front of the impact sight is virtually spotless of any debris. Any other plane crash in history has left some wreckage somewhere, just not this one.

Also, there is a gas station right across the street from the location of the crash. The gas stations cameras point out from the station and have the perfect angle to show the impact. When the people in the gas station looked back over the video to see wtf happened, they were astonished at what they saw. Minutes later, the FBI came to the gas station and seized the tape. The people inside the station even had a court order put on them to not speak about what they saw. Now tell me, what are they hiding and why cant we see the tapes of what actually impacted there? People would compare this ''golden'' footage to the missing footage from the jfk assasination. Its funny how throughout history the most striking and unquestionable evidence tends to disappear.
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Old 08-04-2006, 06:16 AM   #32
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yeah, loose change was very interesting.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:37 AM   #33
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WOW! I have a whole new opinion on everyone who has posted in this thread. Honestly, if you really think our government is that corrupt, please feel free to leave the country and go deal with dictatorship or something in Cuba or wherever you may want to go. After reading your thoughts on 9/11, I'll gladly help you pack your bags and drive you to the airport or harbor or whatever your means of transportation may be. Then tell me how much you love our country. Any monkey can put out a video analyzing every piece of 9/11. Any monkey can tell you that George Bush himself trained the pilots for 9/11. But does that mean you should believe it? Honestly people, get a life.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:48 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backseatchris
^^ I agree with just about everthing said above. I saw with my own 2 eyes the destruction @ the WTC in the days following 9/11 and @ the pentagon. My groups 1st thoughts at the pentagon crash sight were " A huge boeing 757 made that small of a hole?" and "where are the pieces of the plane?"

Look at a crash photo of the pentagon 30 minutes after impact. There are no pieces anywhere to be found. The front lawn in front of the impact sight is virtually spotless of any debris. Any other plane crash in history has left some wreckage somewhere, just not this one.

Also, there is a gas station right across the street from the location of the crash. The gas stations cameras point out from the station and have the perfect angle to show the impact. When the people in the gas station looked back over the video to see wtf happened, they were astonished at what they saw. Minutes later, the FBI came to the gas station and seized the tape. The people inside the station even had a court order put on them to not speak about what they saw. Now tell me, what are they hiding and why cant we see the tapes of what actually impacted there? People would compare this ''golden'' footage to the missing footage from the jfk assasination. Its funny how throughout history the most striking and unquestionable evidence tends to disappear.
It was a Cigto gas station, managed by Jose Velasquez. Here are his words regarding that fateful day:

"By the time I got outside all I could see was a giant cloud of smoke, first white then black, coming from the Pentagon," he said. "It was just a terrible, terrible thing to be so close to."

Velasquez says the gas stations security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "Ive never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film."

According to FBI statements in response to the FOIA request (number 1030438-000) from Mr Bingham, the Citgo gas station video DOES NOT show flight 77 impacting the pentagon.

If this is the case then why did the FBI confiscate the security videos within minutes of the crash and why havent they subsequently released these videos?

There is also confusion regarding a Sheraton (or Doubletree) hotel that ALSO had its security tapes confiscated. First the FBI said no, they did not take any video tapes from a hotel. But according to a CNN FOIA request however, the nearby hotels video DID capture the impact. The following exchange is from a CNN transcript* of a report on the 2002 release of the original four frames of Pentagon footage:

*http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...07/asb.00.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCINTYRE (on camera): These pictures are the first to be made public, but they are not the only images of the plane hitting the Pentagon. Sources tell CNN that the FBI on September 11th confiscated a nearby hotel's security camera videotape, which also captured the attack. So far, the Justice Department has refused to release that videotape. Aaron.

BROWN: Why? Do we have any idea why they won't release it?

MCINTYRE: Well, the claim - we have filed a freedom of information request for it. They claim that it might provide some intelligence to somebody else who might want to do harm to the United States. But officials I talked to here at the Pentagon say they don't see any national security or criminal value to that tape. The FBI tends to hold on to things. But the government may eventually release that tape, and if they do, we'll bring it to you.

BROWN: Jamie, thanks. I must have missed something in how, where the intelligence possibilities are there, but that happens with me sometimes. Thank you for your work today, nice job.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whichever story you believe, whether the footage does or does not show the impact, the fact that the footage exists is not denied. So something does not tally up here. Both FOIA requests were denied yet we have one FOIA request denial saying the footage does not show the impact, yet a second FOIA request denial saying it does show the impact.

We are being lied to, and no one cares.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
WOW! I have a whole new opinion on everyone who has posted in this thread. Honestly, if you really think our government is that corrupt, please feel free to leave the country and go deal with dictatorship or something in Cuba or wherever you may want to go. After reading your thoughts on 9/11, I'll gladly help you pack your bags and drive you to the airport or harbor or whatever your means of transportation may be. Then tell me how much you love our country. Any monkey can put out a video analyzing every piece of 9/11. Any monkey can tell you that George Bush himself trained the pilots for 9/11. But does that mean you should believe it? Honestly people, get a life.
What you are missing is the point that I DO love my country...much more than you love it. You see, if you truly loved this country and what it stands for, you would want your government to tell you the truth, right?

But instead, you choose to ignore EVIDENCE that PROVES the government is not telling the whole story...how it LIES to the public. Not only that, you support the lies.

Maybe I should help YOU pack your bags sir.

Please refrain from any further attacks regarding those seeking the truth about this event unless you can chime in with some proof that the official 'story' (HAH!) is correct.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:56 AM   #36
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I can almost fathom the idea of the government telling us it was a plane that hit the pentagon when in fact it may have been a missile or something. They don't want to public to know something like that simply b/c it would cause severe panic that a missle got through our defense systems and was able to make contact with a government building. Yes it causes panic that someone could have hit the building with a plane but that wouldn't be a breach of our defense system. That's just well thought out planning by the attackers.
But if you guys really believe that the government actually had a hand on these attacks that killed thousands of american citizens as well has hundreds of government employees, you have to be out of your mind. Nothing in the world would make me believe that accept for the president or another government official themselves admitting to it. No movie director is going to be able to put a movie together to make me believe that. Do you think the makers of these movies are going to point out the things that happened that will go against their cases? Heck no! They are just going to point out things that help their cases which results in leaving half of the facts of the incident out of the movie.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:58 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heathenbrewing
What you are missing is the point that I DO love my country...much more than you love it. You see, if you truly loved this country and what it stands for, you would want your government to tell you the truth, right?

But instead, you choose to ignore EVIDENCE that PROVES the government is not telling the whole story...how it LIES to the public. Not only that, you support the lies.

Maybe I should help YOU pack your bags sir.

Please refrain from any further attacks regarding those seeking the truth about this event unless you can chime in with some proof that the official 'story' (HAH!) is correct.
So since I'm against your idea of the 9/11 attacks, I have to refrain from posting? I have to bring cold hard facts huh? Well half the sheep in this thread didn't bring facts but are on "your side" so you don't tell them to refrain from posting until bringing facts. LOL Sheep always need a Shepherd. And you guys found yours. Michael Moore. LOL

Last edited by Randy : 08-04-2006 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Randy
.....Nothing in the world would make me believe that accept for the president or another government official themselves admitting to it.....
Well, it took them many years to admit to Operation Northwoods. But they eventually did because of true patriots hounding them for the truth.

I believe that those who fight for the truth are more patriotic than those who wave the flag and tow the 'official' line.
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Randy
So since I'm against your idea of the 9/11 attacks, I have to refrain from posting?
I never said that. Please reread my wods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathenbrewing
.....Please refrain from any further attacks.....
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:16 AM   #40
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All I meant was that everyone reads way too much into these videos made by people who have zero access to any kind of government files. All they know is what you have seen yourself on TV, radio and the internet. You would have never thought of this stuff had these videos not been made. They exclude major facts about the investigation and the incident itself and only include the facts that point toward a government scandal. I mean they completely leave out whole facts and points of the incident just to still be able to prove their point. You guys don't see that. You just listen to what they say and start questioning the government.
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